Let me be clear: I am NOT converting away from Catholicism! Nor will I ever be! Why would I go anywhere else when John 6:53 and we literally have the Mass right here. This post is NOT meant to be ecumenical in any way, in fact I’m pretty sure ecumenism is heresy and I don’t want to touch that with a ten-foot pole.
No, but recently my husband and I were watching Jeopardy!, and there was a clue about Islam, and, as someone who’s interested in religion and philosophy in general, I began to think: “ya know, I don’t really actually know much about Islam at all. What do they even believe?”
Thus began an absolutely fascinating internet rabbit hole adventure that kept me up too late and made my husband wonder why I was “brushing my teeth” in the bathroom for 45 minutes.
Keep in mind: I can’t attest to the veracity of many of these claims, as my knowledge of Islam is pretty much limited to what I absorbed in forty-five minutes on YouTube while brushing my teeth. I have never even touched a copy of the Quran, and don’t personally know any Muslims; for all I know, many of these statements could be completely made-up; you can’t believe everything you hear on the internet, after all.
Regardless, the following concepts made me go “Huh!, that’s interesting”:
10. They apparently have clear rules written down right there in their book that tell them precisely how to go about every moment of their daily lives, in black and white terms. Wow! As someone who lacks an innate sense of balance when it comes to living a religious life, I can see how this would be extremely helpful. Sometimes I wish we Christians had such clear instructions. In Christianity there’s more left up for personal interpretation, which is cool, because not everyone is living the same life nor has the same disposition, and God meets us where we are. However, I also think it must be nice to be told in very plain terms exactly what you may and may not do, and when.
9. Gender relations. Three particular details in this category blew my mind:
- (a) apparently, women and men who are friends are not allowed to deliberately touch each other at all — they can’t even shake hands when meeting. Wow! Is it just me, or does that actually feel… extremely natural and right?! Like, tbh I always feel a bit strange when I’m introduced to a (straight) man and am expected to shake his hand. Like, um, isn’t that hand for your wife?? Like, I know what you do with that hand, and I know what straight men’s brains are like, sir, so please refrain from touching me. Only my husband gets to do that. I’ve always felt a bit neurotic and prudish for feeling this way, but evidently it’s not just me, it’s a tenet of a major world religion. Huh! I wouldn’t mind if this became a social norm in the West.
- (b) In their churches — ahem, mosques, I guess — men and women often assemble in separate areas of the space. Segregation. This is also something that some more traditional Christian churches do, and I think it’s a cool practice, reminding us that men & women are different and should be treated as such.
- (c) According to one video I watched, Muslim women aren’t even technically required to attend Friday prayer service!, just strongly encouraged. Wow! To me this is so interesting; while I certainly don’t disagree with the universal Sunday obligation for all Catholics, I actually don’t think it’s such a bad idea either for the expectations to be different for men and women. I’ve talked on here before about how hard it is on Catholic women to discern when they are required to go to Mass vs when they have a legitimate reason not to (pregnancy nausea, parenting littles, etc.), and it causes a lot of anguish for us. I feel like attendance being “strongly recommended” instead of “required but with exceptions” might create less stress for women (also, apparently Muslim women aren’t supposed to formally pray while on their period?!, which, ya know what, I kinda can get on board with, as I, like most women, suffer a lot and can’t be expected to do much of anything, at least not very well, on certain days of the month).
8. Modesty standards are on point. I already mentioned in my post on women’s fashion that I personally think Islamic modesty standards for women are awesome; but here’s a chance for me to rant about it again! The Islamic definition of modesty makes way more sense than the Western one. Like, I will never understand how fitted clothes can be considered “modest;” it’s so dumb to me to see these Christian girl influencers, all with their long, beautiful hair out, posing in tight little showy outfits that they claim are “modest” just because they cover a certain amount of skin. Something that hugs the shape of your body may be beautiful and all, but it really can’t be called modest. Likewise, a little sheer lace mantilla that decorates your hair rather than covering it — I wear one because it’s normal here, but I don’t think it exactly qualifies as “modest,” technically. Showing off your figure and/or your hair isn’t modest. People be like “modesty can be sexy!”, but I’m of the opinion that “modest” and “sexy” are mutually exclusive. However, you can be both modest and pretty, which much Islamic fashion is. (And please don’t @ me telling me I “don’t get it” about modesty — I understand just fine how for some people, “modesty” means dressing in a way that honors your natural, God-given beauty without flaunting anything or drawing undue attention to yourself. I just think it’s also clear that a woman dressing this way is still subjecting herself to the male gaze, which is her decision and I’m not saying she shouldn’t be able to choose that; within reason, people can dress however they want; it just seems like this can’t properly be called “modesty.”)
I’m not done yet! Catholic women like to talk about “Marian dress” as a modesty standard, but seem not to notice that in images of Mother Mary, she’s always got her hair covered and is draped in long, forgiving, loose-fitting garments that conceal her body, like a Muslim woman. And I take issue with the accusation that shapeless, loose-fitting clothes for women are “lazy and frumpy.” I 100% would wear a niqab, or at least a hijab (because let’s be real, we all know hair is one of the most, if not the most, eye-catching and distinguishing features of a person (what’s the first way most amateur authors describe a character’s physical appearance?), and can often make or break a person’s sexiness; no point pretending hair is a sexually neutral feature like an elbow or a nose), if it were socially acceptable for a white Catholic woman in America. The less I can be perceived and visually assessed — the freer I can be from the prison of the male gaze — the happier I am!
7. Cleanliness standards also on point. Apparently, Muslims are required to wash themselves before praying — it’s called ablutions. Even their feet! Wow. I think it’s kind of cool — of course we want to come before God as free of the stains and stink of the world as possible. “Cleanliness is next to Godliness,” as the saying goes. We Western Whites, who (according to r/Hygiene, at least) have a reputation for being the stinkiest people, could perhaps do well to consider this concept of cleanliness/hygiene as not just practical but spiritual. Fascinating.
6. Very clear rules about music. Oh my goodness, how much easier my little life would be if we Catholics had our own version of “haram” and “halal” labels, which apparently apply to music and media as well as food. If I didn’t have to bother agonizing over what’s okay to listen to, didn’t have to bother with the hard work of discerning and reflecting and examining my conscience — if there were a clear, black-and-white “this music is forbidden” — how much easier that would be! Obviously I get why we here in the West don’t feel the need for such labels, and I love the beauty in that — important things are rarely easy, after all — but also, there are times when I feel like some strict black-and-white rules would be really helpful and make life easier. Would help those of us who suck at discerning. You know: a system that caters to the lowest common denominator, and all (it’s me, I’m the lowest common denominator).
5. Similarly, the rules about food. I’m vegetarian anyway, and I’m all for a system of dietary laws. There absolutely should be restrictions on the manner in which animals can be slaughtered for meat, and, if we absolutely must slaughter animals, there should be a spiritual element to their slaughtering. Otherwise it’s just selfish and brutal. Muslims and Jewish folks are way ahead of us on this one!
4. And, continuing in that same vein, the Islamic rules for fasting are way more clear and easy to follow, imo, than the Catholic ones. The whole “if necessary you may have two mini meals that together don’t add up to one meal” — what even is that?! I’m so weird about food and “meals” that I honestly don’t even know how to apply this one in my own life. Simply not ingesting anything until sundown makes so much more sense and is so much easier to follow, as well as feeling more like true fasting. I don’t suppose there’s anything wrong with me stealing this method to use during penitential seasons.
3. Prayer positions. I saw one video where an imam was explaining why Muslims bow and prostrate themselves in prayer. It elevates the heart above the brain, demonstrating complete submission of the will and intellect. Isn’t that interesting?! I know Orthodox Christians do bowing and prostration too. We Catholics prefer kneeling upright, which I personally prefer because sticking your butt in the air is embarrassing imo. The only time I see a prostrate position during Catholic ritual is at ordinations to the Priesthood, and then they lay flat on their faces, so it’s a bit different. I kind of like this physical gesture, in theory, though. Humans are both soul and body after all, the two irrevocably intertwined (as much as I hate to admit it, given my issues with my body, lol!), and it makes sense to pray with our body too. “As we believe, so we pray,” said one of the Sisters who taught my kids’ Catechism class; I feel like elevating the heart above the head for prayer is kind of a cool example of that.
2. Specific, mandated prayer times! Again, for an undisciplined, forgetful, lazy, unstable, and irrational-minded person like myself, having mandatory prayer times sounds extremely helpful! “Figure it out for yourself”/ “do it whenever works for you” is pretty unhelpful, for me, who didn’t grow up religious and has struggled to figure out how to be so. Better Catholics with more discipline probably can’t relate, but, I kinda love the idea of pre-scheduled prayer times being non-negotiable.
1. Emphasis on our enslavement to God (“Allah”) rather than God as our loving Heavenly Father. Interesting! Obviously, I believe God is our loving Heavenly Father — Jesus Himself said so. I also think that many Christians in the modern West would do well to remember that He isn’t just our friendly “Daddy God” (🤮) but infinitely greater than we are, and has no need of us, and that He has no obligation to make sense to us or to make us happy. Like I said, I haven’t read the Quran, so I can’t really say much on how Muslims feel about Allah in comparison to how we feel about God, but, I just heard this difference briefly explained in a video, and I can appreciate this POV; it’s a helpful reminder for anyone of any religion, I should think.
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So yeah, like I said, I’m not interested in converting or anything — why would I be — I just think these elements of their belief system are super interesting, and there are some elements that I think I’d even like to borrow and apply to a Catholic lifestyle. Which, as far as I can tell, is not an ecumenical/heretical thing to say, and I hope I haven’t accidentally sinned anywhere in this post. This was just a fun little learning adventure for little old me, is all, and rather enlightening to see some of the similarities and differences between this other religion/culture and my own, that might actually help me be a better Catholic.
2 responses to “TOP 10: Things I’ve learned about Islam that made me, a TradCath, go “Huh, That’s Interesting””
Whoa, most of these were news to me as well, and it was so interesting to read! Some of these things are pretty neat indeed, much as I’d never want to be an actual Muslim.
Rules are great, but very clear, pedantic rules about every little thing? Ew! That’s a bit like a cult and I think highly inhibits developing prudence, and kinda thinking in general. I agree that it could be very helpful in some aspects of life (at least in theory) – like some sort of equivalent of the halal and haram thing, schedule prayer times, and ESPECIALLy fasting(!) that would be kinda helpful to have in arbitrary, clear, black-and-white terms if it were compatible with Catholicism – but I can’t help but instantly imagine such Muslims finding themselves in some incredibly rare, niche, or just terribly ambiguous/morally grey situation for which no one has thought to write a documentation yet, and I feel for them, because it must be so confusing to navigate this and suddenly have to actually discern it individually. So I guess in the end it’s really good that the Church teaches us to do that all the time by not having documented the procedures for every single thing. Also fwiw I’ve heard that Muslims, kind of like Jews, are really good at finding ways to work around their rules, which I think also becomes easier the greater the number of silly mini rules you have, and at that point why follow any at all. And as far as the fasting goes specifically, I also like how they are much clearer about this, but then it also feels like cheating a bit, what they do, haha. They’ll fast until sunset and then stuff themselves full. I also guess it’s not really healthy…? But I don’t know really. We Catholics kind of do the same on Christmas Eve though, at least in countries that make a big thing out of Christmas Eve supper. It feels counter-intuitive to me and not very, uh… economical? You prepare all that food in advance and you’re hungry from fasting (assuming you’ve fasted properly throughout Advent and Christmas Eve morning) so you’ll make a buttload of it and you want to eat all of it, but then once the time comes for eating, you won’t have the capacity to eat as much as you’d originally have thought because your appetite regulation has changed and you can’t eat as much as you normally would have. So what I often see happening after Christmas is people complaining that they’ve had too much food go to waste. 😀 And personally, as someone who eats very little in one go by default, I’m always frustrated when I get to eat a lot of good food after fasting because there’s no way I’m going to manage a quarter of what I’d like to eat and normally could have; I can eat like 1-2 things when there’s 10, lol. But maybe that’s how fasts before a holiday should work and people these days are just bad at managing food supplies.
Tbh having read some older Catholic books on spiritual development I wouldn’t be surprised if it used to be a rule (albeit maybe a more informal/common-sense one) for friends of both genders not to touch each other. I believe mixed-gender friendships were generally discouraged in very devout circles, and a friendship/unnecessary physical contact between a married woman and a married man definitely would be.
Yeah in our church we do have the thing where women sit on the right and men on the left. No one will yell at you and have you stoned if you sit on the wrong side – especially elderly couples often do, and I sat a few times in a men’s pew when I went to church with just my Dad – but generally most people follow this.
That’s so interesting with the rules being different for women around attending prayer services. We definitely used to have something similar in Catholicism with women after labour who haven’t been churched yet but I guess not otherwise. Btw recently I learned that we do have churching at our priory, how cool is that?! :O It just seems to be kind of voluntary and not like the default thing that you have to be churched. But yeah, I think it’s neat they’ve thought about those service attendance rules, as someone who usually does not go to Mass during early period days.
I’m totally with you re modesty! I seriously kind of envy Muslim women that they can just cover up entirely; I’d love it if we had something like that in Catholicism! I love the fact that we have to wear mantillas to church. So does my Mum who says it lets you cry without people looking at you with concern, and makes the compulsion to look around at people a lot weaker. People these days seem to have a really, REALLy skewed idea on what modest clothing actually is; like some women seriously seem to think if you’ve got a long and pretty dress, you’re fine.
The cleanliness is also a great idea! Contrast that with one modernist priest I’d once heard who says like, if you feel closer to God when praying in your bed before getting up than kneeling, then pray in your bed; God isn’t some sort of stern judge who will send you to hell for praying in bed. He is not, but He is God, so how about basic respect? If you had an audience with a king, would you roll into his palace on your bed in pyjamas or a night gown? 😀 Of course I’m not talking about situations like when you’re sick or really tired or whatever; just being flippant like that. So it makes sense to be clean too.
And enslavement to God – yes! It’s frankly scary how fundamentally we Christians have forgotten about the fact that God is actually God, not our daddy, and as His creation we are inherently His property and we owe everything to Him. I remember that, when still in the NO, I’d hear that sentiment sometimes but never thought much about it, and hearing so much more about it at SSPX really boggled my mind when I started wondering about it. For the average decent medieval European it was probably the most obvious thing ever, but I had to resort to paralleling it with humans vs AI to wrap my brain around it practically. 😀 Even Muslims are aware of this in some way, but the modernist Catholics have walled off their brains from this truth so effectively it’s terrifying. Though maybe in Islam it’s similar and it’s only a theoretical idea but no one really thinks about it anymore…
Thank you for this very good take! It’s absolutely true that a system like this leaves no room for developing prudence – that pretty much sums it up. Some of my rabbit hole time was spent lurking in Muslim Reddit spaces, and you’re absolutely right that it’s apparently not uncommon to find oneself in a morally gray situation and wonder how to make the rules apply. It’s a whole lifestyle, I have a lot of respect for it, as much as I don’t want to do it either!
And yeah, the thing about starving all day and feasting at night, it’s certainly impractical and not the best for you, lol. However, this is already sort of the pattern that I fall into naturally, even though I know it’s not the best for me – I hate to eat during the day, and eat most of my calories before bed – so, this pattern just agrees with me, I guess. 😀
You’re probably right that we once had such rules governing male/female friendships as well. Maybe one day when Tradition is the norm again, we’ll see a comeback of such things. Like the Forbidden Books List (although, there is so much content out nowadays that it’d be awfully hard for them to maintain such a list).
That’s awesome you guys have Churching of Women there! I don’t think it’s done at my parish.
I also love veiling. It’s so nice as an introvert! It’s the little lacy veils that I feel like kind of defeat the purpose. A scarf, something non-see-through, makes more sense. I keep meaning to trade my lace mantilla for a scarf of some kind, but need to find something lightweight, what with the hot weather here.
Wowww, yeah, the modernist/Protestant take on God’s Fatherhood is so strange to me! I appreciate the rigor and seriousness of Islam in this area I guess. It also occurred to me that the Liturgy of the Hours is not unlike the Muslims’ five scheduled prayer times – our Church just doesn’t make them mandatory, but outside of the Mass they are one of the best prayers. I dunno, I just like the idea of applying some more structure in my own life I guess. 😀